Curse

Tyla · Aug 24, 2008, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

Filling the books isn´t grind, it is playing the game, so he is most likely really enjoying it.

Last time I checked repetetive actions equates to grind, so logically books are grind.

Oh, and to grind you must play the game anyways...

Iuris · Aug 24, 2008, 08:38 PM // 20:38

The only thing I'll miss with Ursan is something form my warrior to use in heavy anti-melee areas. You know, the parts where you are blinded blurred visioned AND facing aegis or whatever.

Apart from that... hardly ever used it.

AKB48 · Aug 24, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by silavor

No one seems capable of PUG'ing it anymore, DoA is a ghost town. You'd think that at least some people would be capable of developing a useful team again that didn't involve ursan... ah well, it might just be my luck that no one is there when I bother looking.

Well imo DoA still got alot of people in it, they're just dead that's all. (Or the chat box is full of : WTS armbrace 100k+25e)

But didn't people do DoA finely before Ursan? Is switching back THAT hard? (just throwing that out there, personally Idk, done w/ GW)

EPO Bot · Aug 24, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Last time I checked repetetive actions equates to grind, so logically books are grind.

Oh, and to grind you must play the game anyways...

Grinding means repetitive actions: Like good olde Diablo 2 pindleskin runs. Filling books requires you to do every mission once, not just one mission twenty times. So logically, books are to oposite of grind.

Shyft the Pyro · Aug 25, 2008, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPO Bot

Grinding means repetitive actions: Like good olde Diablo 2 pindleskin runs. Filling books requires you to do every mission once, not just one mission twenty times. So logically, books are to oposite of grind.

Only if you fill said books once. Filling books multiple times is grind.

This is why I do not consider Vanquisher or Cartographer to be grind-based: no matter how repetitive the actions may seem, they do not actually have to be repeated

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKB48

But didn't people do DoA finely before Ursan? Is switching back THAT hard? (just throwing that out there, personally Idk, done w/ GW)

The problem is getting people to care. Once the Hall of Monuments Tormented weapon update rolls out, expect people to start caring about DoA again enough to be willing to PuG.

AKB48 · Aug 25, 2008, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Yeah I guess farming it everyday is b-o-r-i-n-g, they need some inspirations.

mage767 · Aug 25, 2008, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by high priestess anya

very impressive..

http://eu.aiononline.com/en/game

uhmmmm....
*packs his rucksack and heads out of GW territory*

http://eu.aiononline.com/en/movies
"starts sprinting"

Nice, Aion looks impressive!!

I'm gonna play Mage when it comes out, bb GW!!

Kashrlyyk · Aug 25, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Last time I checked repetetive actions equates to grind, so logically books are grind.

Oh, and to grind you must play the game anyways...

After finishing everything in the game once, all you do is repeat stuff which for you is grind? After three years, is there anything left that is not grind??

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPO Bot

Grinding means repetitive actions: Like good olde Diablo 2 pindleskin runs. Filling books requires you to do every mission once, not just one mission twenty times. So logically, books are to oposite of grind.

Thanks. I completly agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shyft the Pyro

Only if you fill said books once. Filling books multiple times is grind.

...

Filling the books = playing the missions and dungeons of EotN = grind after the first time => playing through any campaign after the first time is grind!

Tyla · Aug 25, 2008, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

After finishing everything in the game once, all you do is repeat stuff which for you is grind? After three years, is there anything left that is not grind??

Well, what's the point in quoting me when you add nothing to that discussion?

Shyft the Pyro · Aug 25, 2008, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

After finishing everything in the game once, all you do is repeat stuff which for you is grind? After three years, is there anything left that is not grind??

Filling the books = playing the missions and dungeons of EotN = grind after the first time => playing through any campaign after the first time is grind!

Some people play multiple characters. Some people PvE for skill unlocks (more of a thing of the past due to no skill quests outside of Prophecies, but still technically possible with new characters' hero skill points). Some people want Barbie/Ken dolls (buying a specific PvE armor for a specific profession or gender). Some people re-roll characters for a specific purpose - to fill a slot in a team, for example - and that often depends on skill nerfs and buffs, thus creating the need to get through the game again until the character can access attribute points/skills/armor/etc.

If you ask me, the determining factor is the title. If a title exists, any activity can be demeaned by claiming it is being done only for the title. If no title exists, the player is clearly doing something of their own will - if the player weren't having fun, the player wouldn't be doing whatever it is that looks like grind. Since there is virtually no way to verify anything in the online environment, to claim that one is "grinding for fun" - grinding of your own will even though a title exists - would be roughly as effective as claiming your FoW armor isn't eBay'ed was in the old days, or how claiming you didn't MapHack... I mean, TexMod your way through Cartography is these days. The existence of the title becomes the only independently verifiable factor - and, sadly, everyone gets lumped together.

In the absolute sense, though, all grind is subjective. Consider PvP, for example. Is it grind? Yes, because the content (general format) does not change between matches (barring major overhauls). No, because the content (specific challenges) is always different (barring repeated matches against the same opponent who never changes techniques). Yes, because titles exist for PvP. No, because you can avoid PvP altogether. Personally, I regard PvP as grind (repetitive content) and choose to avoid it, but to people who like PvP the "grind line" lies elsewhere - such as in fame or gladiator farming, for example.

In short, grind is subjective. Please stop trying to come up with an objective definition of it.

Pleikki · Aug 25, 2008, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

After finishing everything in the game once, all you do is repeat stuff which for you is grind? After three years, is there anything left that is not grind??

There is Things to do, I Bet you havent done all side quests in gw.

Kashrlyyk · Aug 25, 2008, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

There is Things to do, I Bet you havent done all side quests in gw.

I am not talking about me, I asked Tyla, who avoided to answer the question.

Tyla · Aug 25, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

I am not talking about me, I asked Tyla, who avoided to answer the question.

I really need to answer that?

fireflyry · Aug 25, 2008, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by silavor

No one seems capable of PUG'ing it anymore, DoA is a ghost town. You'd think that at least some people would be capable of developing a useful team again that didn't involve ursan... ah well, it might just be my luck that no one is there when I bother looking.

I've had some good runs lately.

The problem isn't that people can't anymore or that the number of players has lessened overall.

DoA UB runs were one of the quickest ways to make cash and garner loot in the game.

It was predominantly a farm, regardless of the mantra "it was fun!!!" from the QQer's.

Nerf the farm and the next profitable option is where the masses will flock.

The best thing about the UB nerf is the fact it has high-lighted exactly why most people were using it in the first place.If they were really having that much fun in DoA they would have adapted their builds.

They did'nt.

They QQ'd for a week and then went back to repeating their old farms.

Cheers Anet.

AsyaMordina · Aug 25, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

The best thing about the UB nerf is the fact it has high-lighted exactly why most people were using it in the first place.If they were really having that much fun in DoA they would have adapted their builds.

I played DoA quite heavily with UB. Playing both on the Euro and AM servers, but I never considered it a farming spot. I had fun in DoA because it was one of the few places left in the game where you could meet and play with real people. You know, those players not named Master, Olias, or Liva that used to show up in the party window a long time ago.

UB promoted rapid party formation (under 20 minutes) and a fairly quick run, 2 to 2-1/2 hours. It was easy to PM folks on friends list and say, "Hey, up for a DoA run?" and they would come and we would socialize alot during the run. It gave opportunities to show off that new prestige armor/weapon. Do the run as Christmas elves. It put co-operative back in the CORPG roots of GW.

Adapting the build isn't the issue for me. I can always go back to Ele or Monking, its the long party formations that subtract the fun from the game. Playing is more fun than waiting to play.

fireflyry · Aug 26, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

Fair call and more power to you.

I'm only observing motivational trends, to which I'm sure there are exceptions.

I still don't see the whole "it was fun and easy" being justification.There are plenty of "fun and easy" places to pug and socialize with randoms and friends.I do it all the time in a plethora of places and don't spend hours waiting hence I'm always seeing that mantra as a smokescreen to truer underlying motivations tbh.

The obvious reason it was so easy and relatively effortless to form a team in DoA was because it was motivated and 100% dictated by the mass "co-operative" abuse and popularity of a broken skill that required the mashing of three buttons to garner high-end rewards.

Does that make the skill ok?

The obvious advantages a broken skill brings to the game in no way justifies it's existence or abuse else all we would ever get in updates is OP'd buffs merely because people find broken skills "fun".

ALF71BE · Aug 26, 2008, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Relating grind - We all kill monsters a googol times in this game. Now THAT is grind.

Now let's stop complaining about Ursan and be grateful to your god that it was nerfed.

fenix · Aug 26, 2008, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Had 2 people using Ursan in a HoM HM pug I joined.

We won....but I was so close to ragequitting several times.

kazjun · Aug 26, 2008, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Eh, DoA was dead before GWEN and now it's gone back to being dead? No surprise. You pretty much go with guildies or heroes, pugs aren't really for most elite farms outside of maybe ToA areas. Well, unless you like waiting around to fill up a group and hope it doesn't fail.

As for caring, not really, I filled my monument. I don't need the weaps (since I just bought all the destroyer weaps), and I don't need the money cause after 3 years I don't really need the money anymore. Unless I can be bothered making a new pve char, I'm pretty much set with gear for all my chars and heroes. I just play for fun now, though I set aside time to grind to get titles for the phoenix. Need to get my elonian carto (93%ish). After that, I'm pretty much done.

Kagawa Kaze · Aug 27, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

I think people will get creative about DoA again...everyone got so used to depending on ursan that they forget there's more than one way to solve a problem.